Criminal Justice Committee

Meeting date: Wednesday, May 31, 2023

Official Report 676KB pdf

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Subordinate Legislation

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International Organisations (Immunities and Privileges) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023 [Draft]

The next item is consideration of an affirmative instrument. I am pleased to welcome Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, and her officials to the meeting. From the Scottish Government, we have Walter Drummond-Murray, who is head of the civil courts unit; Conor Samson, who is justice co-operation policy manager; and Emma Thomson, who is a solicitor in the legal directorate. I refer members to paper 1, and I invite the cabinet secretary to speak to the instrument.

Good morning, convener, and thank you. The draft International Organisations (Immunities and Privileges) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023 confers various legal immunities and privileges on the International Criminal Police Organization, which is more commonly known as Interpol, and specified categories of people who are connected to Interpol so far as it is within the devolved competence of this Parliament. The United Kingdom Government has negotiated a privileges and immunities agreement with Interpol to provide it with the privileges and immunities that are necessary for it to function effectively in the UK and to enable Glasgow to host the 2024 Interpol general assembly, for which granting privileges and immunities is a prerequisite.

The agreement regulates the privileges and immunities that are afforded to Interpol, such as certain tax exemptions and immunity under certain conditions from legal process. The agreement obliges the United Kingdom to abide by the terms of the agreement. The order before the committee today fulfils those obligations in so far as they relate to devolved matters in Scotland. Equivalent provision in respect of reserved matters and devolved matters in the rest of the UK is being conferred by legislation at Westminster. However, to the extent that privileges and immunities relate to devolved matters in Scotland, conferral rightly falls to the Scottish Parliament. When respective parliamentary passage is complete, both orders will go before the Privy Council in July.

To assist the committee, I will say a little bit more about the nature of the privileges and immunities that are involved. The immunities cover things that are done or omitted to be done by members of Interpol only while exercising their official functions in connection with Interpol and the general assembly. There is an exception to the immunity in respect of road traffic accidents. All persons enjoying privileges and immunities are expected to respect the laws and regulations that are in force in the UK, and the secretary general of Interpol must co-operate at all times with the appropriate UK authorities to prevent any abuse of the privileges and immunities. The order also provides for the inviolability of any private residence of the secretary general, exemption and privileges in respect of personal baggage, and exemption or relief from all devolved and local taxes.

It is customary to grant such privileges and immunities to diplomatic missions and international organisations to enable them to function. The agreement is broadly in line with global practice and includes provisions to ensure that immunities and privileges do not impede the proper administration of justice. The privileges and immunities that are conferred by the draft order are granted primarily on the basis of strict functional need. They are no greater in extent than those that are required to enable Interpol and specified individuals connected with Interpol to function effectively. The immunity does not apply to a person who is a British citizen or any person who at the time of taking up his or her functions is a permanent resident of the United Kingdom.

Immunities and privileges are, therefore, limited in that they apply only to official functions and can be waived. The immunity is analogous to but more limited than the immunity that has been for generations conferred on diplomats working in foreign jurisdictions. As with diplomatic immunity, all individuals benefiting from privileges and immunities in Scotland are expected to respect Scots law, both criminal and civil.

The draft order implements the agreement that the UK has reached with Interpol in line with global practice. It enables Interpol to hold the general assembly in Glasgow and conduct its activities in the UK, while ensuring and upholding protections for the effective administration of justice. As a good global citizen, it is the responsibility of the Scottish Government to bring the order to the Parliament for consideration. I commend the order to the committee.

Thank you. That is very helpful. We now open up to questions. I think that you covered this in your opening remarks, cabinet secretary, but can you confirm that the provisions that we are looking at would be for the duration of the general assembly event only and do not stretch beyond that? The policy note that we have says:

“it is necessary to grant INTERPOL the relevant privileges and immunities required to operate effectively across Great Britain and Northern Ireland on an ongoing basis.”

Can you confirm that that does not mean that, once the order is in place or if it is agreed to today, it would be a permanent provision?

As my speaking note and the policy memorandum indicate, the order has two functions. One is to enable Glasgow to host the general assembly of Interpol, so there is very specific consideration given to the operational needs of Interpol with respect to those functions. The other purpose to the order is that it is particularly important post-Brexit to ensure that the United Kingdom can continue to collaborate with Interpol, given its importance as an international forum of co-operation in law enforcement.

There is no end date to the order, and it is for either party—Interpol or the United Kingdom—to terminate it. It is a necessary order for the specific function of the general assembly and the individuals who will attend the general assembly. Its broader function relates to what the UK Government has negotiated in the agreement to secure an on-going relationship with Interpol, and it is in all our interests for the UK to continue to engage with Interpol.

Thank you for that helpful clarification. Jamie Greene wishes to come in, then we will hear from Russell Findlay.

Good morning, cabinet secretary and our other guests. I have two short questions, but first I congratulate the city of Glasgow on its successful bid to host the Interpol event in conjunction with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.

My primary question is on the comments that the cabinet secretary made about road traffic accident exemptions. Is that a blanket exemption to all delegates for the duration of their time in Glasgow, or, if an incident occurred, could the proposition be made that it occurred while they were exercising their duties, which I think was the language that you used, and they could, therefore, claim immunity in such circumstances? I was a bit unclear as to how that would be handled by Police Scotland in the unfortunate event that what we hope does not happen were to happen.

I am grateful to Mr Greene for raising those matters. It is, of course, a great opportunity for the city of Glasgow. It is a prestigious international event. It is not as big as the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP26—as it will be on a smaller scale and will not last for the same duration. It will have fewer delegates than visited Glasgow during COP26. Nonetheless, it is a great opportunity for the city to show that it is well able to host such events.

I will re-read the pivotal sentence in my statement: there is an exception to immunity in respect of road traffic accidents. I think that that is very clear. I do not know whether officials wish to add anything, but the fact of the matter is that there is an exception to immunity.

It was more in relation to somebody, for example, commuting from their temporary place of residence to the conference centre and something happening in that environment, whereby they could argue that they had immunity. However, that is fine.

The other question is more general. What discussions has the Scottish or UK Government had with Police Scotland about policing the event? Has there been any analysis of the resourcing levels that will be required, or has there been a finger in the air on the financial cost? That is not an issue as such, but it is important for the committee to keep a watching eye on such things.

It will be for the UK Government to meet the costs that are incurred by Glasgow City Council and Police Scotland. The Home Office has been very clear on that. We are still some distance away from the general assembly. We are looking at November next year, so much of the work on estimating costs will continue. Police Scotland and Glasgow City Council are confident that the plans that they have in place are appropriate, but there will continue to be very close dialogue between the Scottish Government, the UK Government and, of course, our partners in Glasgow.

Good morning. I would also like to put on record that I am very pleased that the United Kingdom Government has secured the prestigious event and decided to host it in Glasgow. I agree with the Minister for Security, Tom Tugendhat, who says that it

“underlines the UK’s role as a global leader when it comes to security and policing”.

I am grateful to all the members who have supported my parliamentary motion, which I have taken the opportunity to briefly plug.

I was going to ask the same question that Jamie Greene asked about the road traffic accident exemption. Do you know whether the exemption was arrived at due to the high-profile case in which a young man was killed by an overseas diplomat in the UK?

It is my understanding that past experience always informs future negotiations over matters in and around such important agreements.

I have another, more general, question. Is this pretty much the same situation as COP26 and there is no meaningful difference to the exemptions in the order?

It is broadly similar.

Great. Thank you.

As members have no further questions, I invite the cabinet secretary to move motion S6M-08712.

Motion moved,

That the Criminal Justice Committee recommends that the International Organisations (Immunities and Privileges) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023 [draft] be approved—[Angela Constance].

Motion agreed to.

On that note, I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for their time. I suspend the meeting briefly to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:14 Meeting suspended.  

10:16 On resuming—